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This is intended to be a news resource for progressive Catholics in the Greater St. Louis area.
Tuesday, November 11, 2008
SHOW ME NO HATE!
This Saturday from noon 'til 2:00 a group will gather in front of The Old Courthouse to protest the passing of Proposition 8 in California. Please come and show your support for the rights of our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. They need our love and good wishes.
"I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman." - President-elect Barack Obama
Show me no hate? Boy, you have no sense of irony. Perhaps you didn't see your homosexual brothers and sisters attack that old woman who dared disagree with them, and desecrate a cross she was carrying. Perhaps you didn't see your love-filled brothers and sisters interrupt and profane a christian church DURING services, even performing sex acts in the Church.
You are either oblivious to news events, completely duped, or an agent of evil. Which is it?
I thought your blog was titled Local "Catholic" Reporter. You do know what the Church's teaching is on homosexual acts, yes? Natural Law?
timman, Identifying the overwhelmingly nonviolent movement with the few violent demonstrations (which should be comdemned, no questions) is akin to connecting all Republicans with those who, during McCain's speeches, called for the "Arab" Obama to be "killed". Additionally, they were the extreeme minority.
Lets stop pointing fingers at the extreemists in order to try and pretend the whole movement is like that in order to condemn the rest.
Violence exists in extreemist liberal and conservative groups and should be condemned. Violent acts against prop 8 supporters are terrible, and the many, MANY hate crimes, lynchings and murders of homosexuals are evil as well.
The blog is "Local" and "Catholic". The Catholic Church has 6 accepted sources of authority for making a moral decision. Scripture, Church Tradition, Philosophy (including nautral law), the Sciences, the Sensus Fidelium (sense of the faithful) and a sixth I always blank on. I'm going to comment on the 5 from the perspective of prop 8 opponents, but don't deny that there are good reasons why the honest conservative Catholic would be for prop 8.
Scripture is scetchy. Sodem and Gommorah was about hospitality rights, not loving relationships. Leviticus is blatantly anti-homosexual, but, the Church does not make the many other codes said with the same weight in that text authoritative. Historical criticism (which the church sees as the best hermaneutical model) shows us that the rules in Leviticus were for a Jewish community in exile, fearful of losing their identity, condemning almost anything not Jewish (The Catholic Church does not condone ethnic cleansing, also supported in the Hebrew Scriptures). Also, biblical writers did not have access to modern science and psychology. At best for prop 8 supporters, the Bible is a wash. Doesn't give realistic support for or against.
The sciences are informing us that people are not choosing to be homosexual, they are born that way. Science is, atleast, leaning in favor of GLBT rights.
Philosophy: natural law is a difficult tool to use because it can be adequately interpreted in multiple ways. One can look at the entire institution of marriage as being for procreation (among other things), but each individual marriage doesn't have to be. The Church does not refuse to marry women or men who are unable scientifically to procreate (whether do to age, health problems, etc), so one can't argue procreation as necessary in every marriage case. Again, at best, a wash, interpretations against it, and for it, both compelling for the honest theologian.
Church Tradition is against it, pretty plain and simple.
The sense of the faithful is probably a wash. A good amount of people on all sides.
As you can see, its closer than one could think, and I think there are good reasons for the honest Catholic to take ether side. The Magisterial Church is not above Scripture, and even Thomas Aquinas was condemned at one point. Instead of creating a divide, lets try to dialogue. Those of us against prop 8 do not hate the church or marriage, we're trying just as hard to follow the Spirit and renew the world. There is divide between our sides, but we can come together because God does not leave God's church or God's people, and God appreciates our effort.
3 comments:
"I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman." - President-elect Barack Obama
Show me no hate? Boy, you have no sense of irony. Perhaps you didn't see your homosexual brothers and sisters attack that old woman who dared disagree with them, and desecrate a cross she was carrying. Perhaps you didn't see your love-filled brothers and sisters interrupt and profane a christian church DURING services, even performing sex acts in the Church.
You are either oblivious to news events, completely duped, or an agent of evil. Which is it?
I thought your blog was titled Local "Catholic" Reporter. You do know what the Church's teaching is on homosexual acts, yes? Natural Law?
timman, Identifying the overwhelmingly nonviolent movement with the few violent demonstrations (which should be comdemned, no questions) is akin to connecting all Republicans with those who, during McCain's speeches, called for the "Arab" Obama to be "killed". Additionally, they were the extreeme minority.
Lets stop pointing fingers at the extreemists in order to try and pretend the whole movement is like that in order to condemn the rest.
Violence exists in extreemist liberal and conservative groups and should be condemned. Violent acts against prop 8 supporters are terrible, and the many, MANY hate crimes, lynchings and murders of homosexuals are evil as well.
The blog is "Local" and "Catholic". The Catholic Church has 6 accepted sources of authority for making a moral decision. Scripture, Church Tradition, Philosophy (including nautral law), the Sciences, the Sensus Fidelium (sense of the faithful) and a sixth I always blank on. I'm going to comment on the 5 from the perspective of prop 8 opponents, but don't deny that there are good reasons why the honest conservative Catholic would be for prop 8.
Scripture is scetchy. Sodem and Gommorah was about hospitality rights, not loving relationships. Leviticus is blatantly anti-homosexual, but, the Church does not make the many other codes said with the same weight in that text authoritative. Historical criticism (which the church sees as the best hermaneutical model) shows us that the rules in Leviticus were for a Jewish community in exile, fearful of losing their identity, condemning almost anything not Jewish (The Catholic Church does not condone ethnic cleansing, also supported in the Hebrew Scriptures). Also, biblical writers did not have access to modern science and psychology. At best for prop 8 supporters, the Bible is a wash. Doesn't give realistic support for or against.
The sciences are informing us that people are not choosing to be homosexual, they are born that way. Science is, atleast, leaning in favor of GLBT rights.
Philosophy: natural law is a difficult tool to use because it can be adequately interpreted in multiple ways. One can look at the entire institution of marriage as being for procreation (among other things), but each individual marriage doesn't have to be. The Church does not refuse to marry women or men who are unable scientifically to procreate (whether do to age, health problems, etc), so one can't argue procreation as necessary in every marriage case. Again, at best, a wash, interpretations against it, and for it, both compelling for the honest theologian.
Church Tradition is against it, pretty plain and simple.
The sense of the faithful is probably a wash. A good amount of people on all sides.
As you can see, its closer than one could think, and I think there are good reasons for the honest Catholic to take ether side. The Magisterial Church is not above Scripture, and even Thomas Aquinas was condemned at one point. Instead of creating a divide, lets try to dialogue. Those of us against prop 8 do not hate the church or marriage, we're trying just as hard to follow the Spirit and renew the world. There is divide between our sides, but we can come together because God does not leave God's church or God's people, and God appreciates our effort.
I hope you have a great Thanksgiving. Peace!
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